The Divine Process Awakened by God
Note: The following is Part Four of an updated version of "Bubba Free John and Swami Muktananda: A Confrontation of Dharmas", originally published in The Dawn Horse magazine, Volume 2, Number 2 (1975). Links to further readings from the published Writings of Avatar Adi Da Samraj are also included following the article.
Editors' note: In this question, Avatar Adi Da refers to Himself as "Dhyanananda", the name given to Him by Swami Muktananda.
Avatar Adi Da Samraj: If this is so, is it not also clear that the Divine Process Awakened by God through the Power of Grace may develop in the intuitive Way of the Jnanis or Buddhas, just as well as the "experiential" Way of the Yogis, and is not the Intuition of the Light as Consciousness at least equal to the vision of Consciousness as Light, and, therefore, is it not so that Dhyanananda's Way of Understanding, or "Radical" Self-"Knowing", in Which God, Guru, and Self are Intuited as Conscious Reality, is valid equally with the Yogic Way of "experiencing", in which God, Guru, and Self are perceived through the agency of Yogic representations?
Swami Muktananda: When you have full Realization of the sahasrar, it is there that Ultimate Truth stands in front of the seeker. The Divinity dwelling in the sahasrar is the Supreme Divinity.
For this reason, all the scriptures have said that, in the sahasrar, Siva and Shakti have become one. It is for this reason that the sahasrar has been given supreme importance. It is the place of highest effulgence, and it is the place where the yogis' inner skies are situated. It is in these inner skies that the yogis experience subtle smells and subtle sounds and subtle sense.
Avatar Adi Da Samraj: Isn't it at this point that the Jnanis disagree? They say that the sahasrar is the reflection of the heart, that the heart is the Primary Source.
Swami Muktananda: There are two kinds of jnanis. One has experienced the highest Reality in the sahasrar. The other is a mere scholar who has read books. In this regard, no one has surpassed Patanjali. Likewise, Shankara agrees that the sahasrar is supreme.
Now the question arises as to whether the knowledge of the jnanis is mere derivative knowledge, or whether it is direct, ordained knowledge. Those who have only derivative knowledge can say that the heart is the seat of Reality, but Shankaracharya would not say that.
Avatar Adi Da Samraj: Ramana Maharshi is one who says that it is.
Swami Muktananda: That does not matter. Who was the Guru for Ramana Maharshi, and what scriptures did he study? In that case, one might say that the armpit is the seat of Reality. He might have been a great saint, just as Sai Baba of Shirdi was a great saint, but Sai Baba formulated no doctrine.
This does not mean that I am complaining about Maharshi. In fact, I had a good relationship with him. When he attained his salvation, I was meditating in Bombay and saw his spirit and followed it for quite some distance. It is not that I am trying to make light of him, but have you met any of his followers and had any discussions with them?
It is not for me to comment on somebody else. If Ramana Maharshi said that it is the heart, I say that it is the sahasrar, and for a person like you, it is not appropriate to get caught in a conflict.
If you were a little more intelligent, you would try to find out which are the authorities in support of the sahasrar and which are the authorities in support of the heart. There was an element of true greatness and realization in Ramana Maharshi, but he did not [inaudible].
It is as with Krishnamurti. He says the Guru is unnecessary, but then he says, "Read my books." We do not need to judge any other saint as high or low. All we need to ascertain is our True Nature, or Supreme Reality. Sai Baba was a great saint, and he accepted the personal Lord, and he accepted the Guru.
I do not like to comment on someone else. I would rather confine myself to the scriptures and to what my Guru has said and what my experience has been.
The sages have said that a one-eyed saint is rare, but that is mistaken, because to make the blue pearl appear as the Real is the need. So, whatever you need, you can get here. The most important thing is to be certain of yourself.
According to the scriptures, a yogi can be recognized even in a battlefield, while a jnani can only be recognized at the moment of death. I warned everyone here fifteen days before Baba's [Bhagavan Nityananda's] final departure. One must be genuine in his worship of the Guru, and if you try to cheat the Guru, then you only cheat yourself.
Next: The End of the Interview
This book was conceived by Adi Da Samraj at the end of 2005. He was first moved to make His own rendering, or "interpretive translation", of a traditional Advaitic text, The Heart of the Ribhu Gita, in order to elucidate (and thereby honor) its full meaning.
Adi Da Samraj then did the same with other great teachings from the traditions of Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism. In each case, He brought the essence of the instruction to the fore, with elegance and Illumined understanding.
Texts whose meanings were only partially (or cryptically) expressed even in the original — let alone in translation — suddenly shone forth, like rough gems cut by an expert hand.
In This Section
Avatar Adi Da's questions were designed to point out the irreconcilable differences between His seventh stage Realization and traditional fifth stage Yogic Realization.